Sunday, August 3, 2008

Looking closer at Jean Duley's statements

The AP has reported startling and frightening claims by Dr. Ivins' therapist Jean Duley in several stories, including one just published by Dishneau and Jordan:

Report: Therapist feared scientist poisoned people

She claimed, "As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people, either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels that he's been slighted or has had — especially toward women — he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings," Duley said. She added that Ivins "has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic, homicidal killer. I have that in evidence. And through my working with him, I also believe that to be very true."

As a physician who is called to assess psychiatric patients presenting to the ER, I find her statements troubling: if any of these psychiatrists diagnosed Ivins as homicidal, that physician would be required to start immediate proceedings for psychiatric hospital commitment. Patients who are a danger to themselves or others must not be allowed to carry out such activities. That is the law.

Furthermore, if Duley believed Ivins had attempted serial murders, she would be required to consult with her supervising physician and immediately call in the police. Was this done? Who was poisoned? If, as reported, she had only been treating Ivins for six months, what evidence did she have of more remote attacks?

Finally, patients who are actually planning murders (or have attempted them) do not usually tell other patients and a therapist about it in group therapy sessions. Someone who talks about such thoughts is trying to explain how they feel and get help.

One media report said Duley was no longer employed at the mental health center where she treated Ivins. Was she let go for nonprofessional behavior? We need to know more about this woman, the basis for her claims, and whether she carried out her professional duties with regard to them.


Anonymous said...

Amen - you would think that a scientist of Ivins' obvious ability wouldn't "try" to poison someone; they would succeed. Also the "treatment at two psychiatric hospitals" was as a consequence of Duley's reporting of the in-front-of-the-group mass murder threat, so Duley's testimony and ONLY that is the basis for the alleged homicidal intentions. He was apparently depressed - anyone would be with the FBI flamboyantly parking outside their house and office.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Nass-
I and others are hanging on your every word.
Hope you don't mind that I have linked your blog and excerpts
from it to a discussion board
which is discussing the rot around the reporting on the unfortunate death of your colleague.
The threads that contain excerpts from your blog are
in the "General Discussion" forum.
Sincere condolensces to you
and his family.
BeHereNow of
Democratic Underground

Anonymous said...

How dare you question the soon to be settled explanation given to the MSM by our transparent government.Ours is not to reason why etc.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Nass,

I fear the 2001 Anthrax Attacks are
just the tip of the iceberg. Here
are some links of widely varying
quality, but useful nonetheless,
for your perusal...

World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed on 9/11
at 5:20 in the afternoon:

Why is this particular video never shown on American TV?

Unreacted thermite found in four different samples
of WTC dust:

Americans appear to be having a Constitutional

Here are some attempting "to support and defend
the Constitution of the United States against
all enemies, foreign and domestic":

The Physics and Chemistry and Biology of 9/11:

"9/11 Mysteries"

In case the link above does not work:

Kevin Ryan (formerly of Underwriters Laboratories)
Discusses The NIST WTC Report:

Numerous reports of molten steel:

Thermite/thermate by-products found in WTC dust:

Physicist Steven Jones (around 69:25 in the following video):

In a New York Magazine interview in March 2006, Dr. Shyam Sunder,
NIST's lead WTC disaster investigator admitted that they were having
"trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."

NIST has postponed publication of its report several times,
attributing the delays to reassignment of investigators to
other tasks...

The BBC refuses to release the name of its
WTC7 news source for this video clip:

(fast-forward to 14:49 for the really weird part)

Burning Buildings:

Falling Buildings:

Professor Steven Jones:

Once again, in a nutshell:

(from the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
during the Reagan Administration)

Can you spot the Boeing 757 that hit the Pentagon
in these photos?

If the entire plane disintegrated, including the titanium engines,
how was it possible for the passengers' bodies NOT to disintegrate?

Former Air Force fighter pilot Russ Wittenberg
previously flew two of the actual airplanes that
were allegedly hijacked on 9/11 (United Airlines
Flights 175 & 93):

Who told Giuliani that the WTC was going to collapse?

Mainstream Media:


"There's really five companies that control 90 percent of
what we read, see and hear." -- Ted Turner

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance
in the major media." -- William Colby, Former Director, CIA

NIST Engineer John Gross speaking at the
Ferguson Structural Engineering Laboratory
at The University of Texas at Austin on 10/18/06:

Criminal negligence or outright fraud?


Connecting the Dots in the Mainstream Media:

False Flags and Low Intensity Operations:


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people
will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained
only for such time as the state can shield the people from
the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie
... The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by
extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state."
--Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda in Nazi Germany, 1933-1945

"A steel structure, generally speaking, does not suddenly collapse
when attacked by fire. There are unmistakable warning signs, namely,
large deformations." --"Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel" by
F. Hart, W. Henn, H. Sontag, C. Van Amerongen, and G.B. Godfrey

NIST Public Conference Call on WTC7




Nafeez Ahmed:

David Ray Griffin:

Dancing Israelis:


A search on "Sibel Edmonds" shows what
the US news media had to report about
this article in London's Sunday Times:

Not a word.

You'd think that a verifiable story about NUCLEAR WEAPONS TREASON
the American people:

Here are some of the accused:

If you do not think that something is very seriously wrong in the US,
with both the State and the Press, then not much more can be said.

"Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official
Government Reports on the World Trade Center
Destruction" (18 April 2008)
by Steven E. Jones, Frank M. Legge, Kevin R. Ryan,
Anthony F. Szamboti, James R. Gourley

The Open Civil Engineering Journal, Volume 2, 2008:

"It can't happen here."

Will you side with Galileo or the current incarnation of The Inquisition?

If you're short on time, just watch one minute of the following link
(from 18:15 to 19:15).

Graeme MacQueen, Buddhist professor and Harvard PhD,
"A Forensic Analysis of 9/11":

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this examination of this Duley person.

Have you looked at the address of Shady Grove Psychiatric Group??....which appears to be in a FIELD in a rural residential area.
The Dr Irwin in residence, happens to be a 'forensic psychiatrist'.
His practice earnings are only $150,000 a year.
There was a shrink in UK with the same name who died in '87.

Shady Grove reported a hate crime to MD state late 90's, then refused to release minor info to courts for a state subpoena.

Doesnt seem to be a MD license for Duley on record.
Dr Irwins practice where Duley is SW lists Lisa B(Barban) Curwin as AKA; she is married to Steve Curwin/lawyer who happens to be brd member of MD Hospice and happens to perform legal work at DoJ.

Frederick MD police blotter and headlines show NO arrests, articles or calls to Ivins home.

I appreciate that more professional people are looking into this more.
In the seems a major HIPPA violation.

OFPC said...

For the record...Your insight into the Medical Practice in question is much appreciated and deserves to be expanded. According to at least one recent news source, Mr. Ivins was removed from his workplace on July 10. I'll quote the article below. It is difficult to forward good links to these articles because the news orgs are using the same link and updating (changing the content) of many of these articles several times a day.

"The Army refused Saturday to say whether it had been reviewing the security clearance of the chief suspect in the anthrax attacks who had mental problems and killed himself as federal prosecutors were planning to indict him.

Ivins was removed from his lab in Maryland by police on July 10 and temporarily hospitalized, according to court records, because it was feared that he was a danger to himself and others. But it was unclear whether he was still employed by the lab at the time of his death Tuesday.

That raises the question of whether Ivins still had his security clearance and, if so, how he kept it, given that his social worker said Ivins had been viewed as homicidal and sociopathic by his psychiatrist.

Army spokesman Paul Boyce declined to comment on Ivins' case."

Report: Therapist Feared Scientist Poisoned People
The Associated Press
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

Chuck kuhn said...

Duley is from Bar Harbor, great little town, NOt far from GW the old man in Maine. Just tease, but think about it...

Ningen said...

Thank you, Dr. Nass. I have a question. You say:

"Finally, patients who are actually planning murders (or have attempted them) do not usually tell other patients and a therapist about it in group therapy sessions. Someone who talks about such thoughts is trying to explain how they feel and get help."

This is along the lines of what I was thinking - if he said such things, it might have been an expression of fear, frustration, and rage at being accused. I wonder exactly what he said, how it was couched, and what other therapists would have done hearing it.

Anonymous said...

I heard the recording of the court proceedings ( no video ) and the first thing I thought of when I heard her voice and chosen words in her successful attempt to get a restraining order was...I wonder when those same FBI agents that rode his tail for up to 7 years and paid off another "suspect" $5,000,000 as a "settlement" (and yes those quotations indicate my suspicions)...I wonder if those same agents also who had the opportunity to interview the Frederick social worker, Jean Duley, I wonder if they had some suggestions for her. I wonder if they provided they're opinion of Mr.Ivins to Ms.Duley. Wouldn't be nice if the FBI had to video record everything they do and then have to provide that recorded evidence in all trials. Accountability anyone? No snippets of audio and video evidence, I want the Truman show. I have to say my favorite quote from the interviews so far is from Jaye Holly (former neighbor), who made it all perfectly clear to me when she said..."I can't imagine him being involved in a scheme to make money or to make a profit, especially one that would put people at risk or even die," Holly said. "That's not the Bruce we knew. He was sweet, friendly. I mean, he was into grass recycling."

...well at least he was green.

Anonymous said...

Apparently, Ms. Duley has a few legal issues of her own.

Anonymous said...

Have you seen this old Kos Thread?

Dr. Zack wound up at Nexstar in Boulder, CO, which was subsequently purchased by Gilead. Rumsfeld, George Schultz and many others got rich on Gilead stock in the aftermath of the attacks, which instructed victims to "take penicilin."

Check this out:

And this goldmine of links and facts:

The "Evil Doer" is none other than Rumsfeld himself.

THE PRIME SUSPECT in the ANTHRAX ATTACKS is DONALD RUMSFELD - using Dr. Philip Zack as his tool.

The fake shrink whom the FBI is using as their tool to smear Ivins is revealed to be a total fraud.

Given that there has been no autopsy on the Body, one must assume that he was “suicided” by our own government.

Unknown said...

As a former therapist, I find this story fishier than a tuna factory. The government makes no sense at all in presenting Ivins as the culprit. It has fallen on its face once before by making wild accusations about another physician. Unfortunately, this one will never be able to testify and I fear the government did its best to make sure it was so. It's curious that Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) was never notified that Ivins was even being considered even though his office was attacked and even though he'd met the FBI director less than a week before. Also interesting is the counselor's previous arrest for possession of drug paraphenalia as well as for DWI. I, for one, believe that this story goes directly to the White House and that the sending of these letters was, in part, their validation of the curtailment of American Civil Liberties under the Homeland Security Act.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to the New World of modern warfare! Why do you think the most prized possession from WWI and WWII was the intellectual minds of the Germans who were far advanced in research and development. Link Anthrax, Lyme Disease (Lab 257), West Nile Virus, AIDS, and the other 80 auto-immune disorders that have exploded over the past few years. These diseases do not exist accidentally. To understand that the greatest threat to mankind is mankind itself will hopefully enlighten your mind to the fact that control of population is very important. How do you eliminate some people, but maintain the resources? The Good Book tells us all these things but we fail to listen and open our eyes to be healed of blindness. John D. Rockefeller Jr would not have funded a little unknown named Margaret Sanger if he didn't believe that the number one issue to control who is reproducing in the future. On a good positive note, take solace in the fact that we know evil will not prevail, even if it does seem like it is winning!

Anonymous said...

Dr Nass - I think you are the only one to get this correct. Because of her poor writing, what she said in her complaint can be taken a number of different ways. Most of the press has it all wrong

Anonymous said...

One of the tip-offs as to her general unreliability is not just her spelling of 'theripist' and her misuse of the word 'subpoena,' but her wacky handwriting and scrawled, uneven lines.

No one in their right mind would take this person seriously-- and she's supposed to be a para-professional? Did anyone hear her taped comments, her breathy dramatizations and obvious lack of composure?

Anonymous said...

Excellent blog and keep raising the questions. The people hear you.

Anonymous said...

As a clinical psychologist, I'm most puzzled by the idea that Dr. Ivins, apparently struggling with intense paranoia, would attend group therapy.

Paranoia involves deep suspicion of other people, and the strong belief that others are hurting or will hurt you. Why would someone experiencing paranoia attend group, which involves proximity to others? Which involves self-disclosure and feedback from strangers? I've never had a patient with significant paranoia agree to go to group even once. The mere suggestion tends to increase their paranoia. At this point I would not even suggest it.

And yet this apparently deeply disturbed, paranoid man not only agreed to join a group, but attended multiple times. I have trouble buying that.

One more thing: the handwriting, etc., does not worry me. I imagine she was shaky. But the statements about him having killed or tried to kill--without her personal knowledge of those things--worry me. A competent professional would be very careful to say "he reported that he has killed" or "he is suspected by the FBI of killing". That should be second nature.

Steve Sailer said...

Look, if you don't believe Duley, go talk to the other people in Ivins' group therapy session.

And go read what Ivins' earlier therapist said he was planning in 2000 -- to poison a young woman if she lost a soccer game.

Ivins was bad crazy.

me said...

" Duley spent her early childhood in Southeast Asia, where her father was a diplomat in several countries during the Vietnam War."

There is a possibility that Duley's father was in the CIA during the Viet Nam War.